Pauline’s Opinion | South Publishes BRS Property Fears Letter

Pauline's Opinion - South Publishes BRS Property Fears LetterWITHOUT PREJUDICE

The letter sent by the BRS in north Cyprus to President Akinci seems to have caught the attention of the press in the south.

http://northcyprusfreepress.com/cyprus-problem-what-will-happen-to-north-property-buyers/

Looking at the tone of the Cyprus Mail article, I would say that the concerns may be founded.Those without any apparent problems during their residency in north Cyprus may now have reason to fear for the future.

It has always seemed fairly obvious to me that the any promises made to foreign purchasers were always movable feasts and that in many respects the needs of foreigners will be very low on the list of priorities of those negotiating.

http://cyprus-mail.com/2015/08/18/expat-alarm-over-north-property/

My advice would be, do not expect too much and then you will not be disappointed. Since the Cyprus Mail mentions the Orams, perhaps it would be wise to remember how badly let down they have been despite the promises made for their co-operation in their ‘test’ case.

Pauline Read

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30 comments to Pauline’s Opinion | South Publishes BRS Property Fears Letter

  • Polly Marples

    Oh dear, the hang em, flog em, draw and quarter em are having a field day in the comments section of Cyprus Mail. Of course we all know that the ‘we are incapable of doing wrong gene’ is present in all Cypriots.

  • fluter

    And when you read the majority of those comments, can you really see any chance of an amicable settlement?

  • cyprusishome

    Think the letter has received an expected response all round!!!!
    The President is not going to give a stuff about a few foreigners at this stage of negotiations his sole aim is to achieve a negotiated settlement for the CITIZENS and voters of Cyprus.

  • Polly Marples

    I sort of think the letter was picked up from here. Pauline’s blogs are followed by a lot of people in the south.

    This gave them an opportunity to kick up, but frankly, I think it is all smoke and mirrors.

    Great the subject is out and being kicked around.

    It will take forever to sort and most of those affected will be pushing up the daisies long before it is, even with a settlement.

  • Ian Edwards

    I think you’re quite correct, Pauline. Trying to untangle all the interests in a particular piece of land at current situations and values, under whatever complex and probably conflicting requirements are finally agreed to, would I believe be more difficult than untangling the Gordian knot.

    I think you are also correct when you imply that having a kocan may not be entirely gold-plated security. Can you or someone explain the exact meaning of ‘esdegger land”, and how one would go about determining the details of a particular piece of such property?

  • Cyprus Sue

    I too have always been confused by the true meaning of Esdegger land. Whilst many would suggest that it is exchanged land, surely the exchange only took place between a “TRNC Government Official” and the person receiving the property. It can in no way be any sort of gold plated security for those that have purchased property in the North because the true owner of the property did not agree to any legally abiding contract.

    With Turkey no longer funding the IPC,is it back to the ECHR and could another Orams type case be seen again? Indeed when it comes to a settlement won’t the Orams case set a precedent? One thing is for sure, I have little faith that the interests of those that bought exchange property will be considered and the blame will be on the purchaser and not the government and legal system that allowed the transaction to take place.

  • Ian Edwards

    I doubt we will see another ‘Orams’ case, as that one was finally decided by UK courts, and there are many more nationals in TRNC than British.

    I agree with Sue that when crunch time comes, the only people who will be fairly and reasonably considered will be Turkish Cypriots. Equality will be conspicuously absent.

    However, I remain confused about esdegger land. I can’t see how the “exchange” between a government official and the new owner, which must surely be a kick-back, would be “legitimised” by a definition.

    Is there nowhere one can turn for a correct explanation of the term?

  • Polly Marples

    It will be interesting to see if anything comes to much. If there is a settlement, a lot will depend on the shape of the settlement. If for instance both side are EU members then I can imagine there will be a little more care taken in sorting out property issues which in my opinion will go on long beyond the lifetime of any current property purchasers who have been duped.

  • fluter

    Found this on an agent’s website. I don’t know how old it is.

    “Post 74 Turkish Cypriot Ownership (T.R.N.C. title deed): Given to Turkish Cypriot in compensation, for land left in South Cyprus (exchange land, property known as Esdeger) or awarded to Turkish Cypriots by the Northern Cyprus government. Based on the 1983 T.R.N.C. Constitution, all the deeds rectified and named as T.R.N.C. deeds are freely transferable to foreigners.”

  • Cyprus Sue

    The more I read the more it becomes clear that exchange land is nothing more than another scam, perhaps the biggest scam of them all. TRNC citizens with the blessing of the TRNC Government, have simply conned people to pay for land and property that was never theirs to sell in the first place. Given the amount of TC land in comparison to GC land how could exchange ever have been a reality? Hence the introduction of TMD land. I believe Esdeger actually means “equivalent” rather than exchange.

  • Polly Marples

    my understanding is that the Greek Cypriot who owned the land never took partor were consulted. That the Turkish Govt gave refugees from the south GC land in return for that which they left behind and the deeds to the land in the south were handed over to the Turkish Army.

  • Ian Edwards

    I think it probably is another scam, Sue, but the biggest of all? I doubt it could hold a candle to the outrageous practice of banks allowing developers to take out huge mortgages on properties they have sold, flee with the proceeds, and the banks to then hit the new owners for the huge debts left behind.

    I can’t see a lot of difference between equivalent and exchange in this context. They both imply a portion of land of equivalent value exchanged for the land in TRNC.

    It seems there are many opinions about esdeger, but few hard facts.

  • cyprusishome

    When we asked the questions when buying the info was such that if there was ever a settlement then there may be some issue with land that was not TC pre 1974 owned. Quite simply because there was no international recognition.

    Under whatever “exchange” name there may be dispute for the current owners be they TC or foreigners depending on what the negotiations throw out and what the following referendum result is. As it stands there is no final settlement on the table or referendum organised so all the discussion and argument in press, on forums etc is just causing unnecessary worry for many. Also giving the idiots ample opportunity for wind ups!

  • Ian Edwards

    Sorry, cih, but I’ve never been of the opinion that hiding one’s head in the sand and hoping an unpleasant issue will never eventuate or simply disappear will solve any problems. I believe the best way to tackle such an issue is by being as well-informed as possible, and debating its pros and cons with a variety of responders in as reasonable and sane a manner as possible. Of course the idiots will wind us up, but they’ve never needed any opportunities to do that in the past. The resident idiots on this forum do it regularly as a matter of course.

  • Miltiades

    You bought cheap stolen properties in the occupied part of Cyprus. What is iditic is you lot, you knew perfectly well that the so called “trnc” was an illegal state. You rushed in to purchase because it was on the cheap, cheapskates generally do this.

    You were also adviced by your respective foreign offices, of the risks involved in purchasing property in a non recognized part of the world.

    Now you are winging!!

  • Polly Marples

    Tell me the old, old story,
    Of unseen things above,
    Of Mutley and His glory,
    of Mutley and His love;
    Tell me the story simply,
    As to a little child,
    For I am oh so weary,
    And sick of Mutley’s crap

    I know the bottom line doesn’t fit…but oh so true.

  • fluter

    So, don’t be sick of it. Just ignore it!

    He won’t go away, but he will be upset if nobody responds to him. I am guilty of responding occasionally, but I feel the need now and then to point out to him that he is boring and repetitive.

    Not an original though in his head.

  • Ian Edwards

    Polly…..

    “As to a little chap”

  • Wallet and Gromit

    Don’t worry it is bath night tonight for all EOKA supporters, talking of “little chaps” I trust he washes under his foreskin or perhaps if circumcised he could be Muslim/Turkish, would he ever admit it – the shame of it all…

  • Polly Marples

    All Arabs

  • Miltiades

    [shush]Never, has there been a finer collection of ignorant, ill educated, so called English, baskets more than likely, and cheap low down AUSIES, gathered together winging and having nightmares as a result of their stupid behaviour. Polly the old dried up prune comes to mind, buying stolen properties on the cheap, back of a lorry like, now you ignorant low down peasants start swimming in your …prestigious bowl of diarrhoea, you deserve all the rotten luck in the world, go to hell, Allah will welcome you… infidels with open arms, or to use a colloquial phrase , fgrick of you stupid friggers !![/shush]

  • AM

    And you have a lovely peaceful Sunday too Milti … 🙂

  • dippersgirl

    ***IMAGE ERROR***

  • fluter

    Wonder what was the image?

  • Polly Marples

    Me too.

  • Dominic Freeman

    The image was corrupt

  • AM

    What ..you mean a bit like Cyprus ?

  • Polly Marples

    Nice one AM. Was it an attempt to cause problems Dom.?

  • Dominic Freeman

    No, the image really was corrupt so that it was unreadable.

  • fluter

    “Was it an attempt to cause problems Dom.?”

    I shouldn’t think so, assuming it was the real Dippersgirl.